>>But I live in dial-up land, and I can't tell if this vBook thing is in the cloud or do I get a disk? << Hi Chip, The vBook is in the cloud. :) You can find similar training on DVD at http://www.cadlearning.com/ . The only reason to get max Design is if you have to calculate accurate lighting measurements for Leeds approval. What you don't get with Design is the SDK. Other than that the two are exactly the same program. Thanks much, Chip. Later Ted